In my mens club we do pretty much all of our tourneys modified shotgun. 18, you then head over to No. Do you play your best golf on the first hole, or do you warm up as you go? If youre in a tournament that employs a shotgun start, dont stress too much about it. Local golf clubs occasionally introduce what is known as a shotgun start. This means that the first golfers finish hours ahead of their colleagues or in the event of bad weather even the next day. As a player, I assume you should understand and know these rules below: A shotgun start not only shortens the time for the tournament but also creates a fair play environment for players. Isnt that what golf is all about anyway? It could be two different start times. Instead of everyone teeing off on 18 seperate holes at the same time, there could be a second group teeing o If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. WebExplaining the 'Shotgun Start' in Golf (How It Works, Origins) "Shotgun start" is the term for a method of beginning a golf tournament with all the groups of golfers teeing off at the This is a popular format thats most often used in tournaments from charity golf scrambles all the way up to the professional ranks. As an example, certain holes will have a double shotgun start, but others will proceed normally. This tends to occur at 8 in the morning or 1 in the afternoon. The relatively modern format of starting an event helps all the participants in an event play on the golf course simultaneously. A modified shotgun start has the same arrangement as the reverse one above. If a tournament has a shotgun start, holes are initially assigned to 18 groups of four golfers. LIVs coverage includes a shotgun start, distinctive live leaderboard, enhanced drone coverage, statistics-driven graphics, and fast-paced coverage featuring nearly twice as many golf shots per hour than traditional golf coverage. How it Works! Web(9:30 A.M. This method is favored by tournament organizers since it allows players to return to their clubs at roughly the same time. A shotgun start involves competitors all starting together, but on different holes. The differnce is simply that the whole golf course will not be used for the tournament's start. They may be using certain holes only because the fe A modified shotgun start is more suited to smaller tournament fields, and most courses require a minimum of 48 players. Definition, origin of 'hitting it on the screws', Explaining the 'high side' or 'pro side' of a golf hole, 2023 Masters Tournament Dates, Schedule, Players in the Field, 24 Famous Golfers Who Were Photographed in the Nude. Spread them out on the course, so all the players can start at the same time. Group A will begin at the first tee, group B at the second, and so on. BEARDED OPEN Charity-AM Shotgun Golf Scramble (https://youtu.be/atpva5yw_NM). WebThe Premier Golf Club Tournament Series heads to the Las Colinas Golf Club on Sunday, February 26th, 2023 - 7:30am shotgun start. . Besides being something to intrigue golf fans, a 'shotgun start' allows a large field of golfers to get through a round without clogging up the course. By. The setup allows the other customers tee times to go through Even if you agree or disagree with me, all your thoughts are welcome. Joined Nov 3, 2018 Messages 14,208 Reaction score Golf Power Explained: 8 Tips To Generate More Speed! Dont hesitate to comment below to tell me your opinion. Your email address will not be published. It requires a bit more planning and can get tricky when you have the outing group and regular golfers mixed together on the course. 6 tee. Once the tournament entrants tee off on their holes, other holes are available for those paying customers. How Much Does It Cost to Get Fitted for Golf Clubs? Around the world, shotgun starts are commonly used to begin golf tournaments. I will explain all these below for you to understand and have a good start in the game. WebA shotgun start is the method used for multiple groups of golfers to begin competing simultaneously on unique holes. Ping G410 Irons 5-Pw. Players usually begin with the closest hole to the clubhouse in a normal shotgun start. Under the shotgun start method, most golfers will start and finish their rounds on holes which they do not normally start and finish on, but they will still get to play their normal 18 holes worth of golf. In a shotgun start, each of the eighteen fourballs would make their way to a tee box and wait for the signal that play is due to begin. Consider a tournament with 18 foursomes (72 players). Product is not available in this quantity. To shorten your phase, let me help you by analyzing and explaining things like shotgun start below. At some point in your amateur career as a linksman, you might have heard the phrase shotgun start. Top 25 Player Breakdown (2022), How to Draw the Golf Ball A Step by Step Guide for Beginners. For example, lets say the golf outing has 12 groups. Its cool if you disagree with me. But what does that mean, DAZN explains below. Required fields are marked *. In a shotgun start, all players in the competition start simultaneously utilizing whichever hole tees are required to make this happen. Golf shotgun starts have many advantages because players finish together, so golf course managers can reopen the course quickly to paying clients. As mentioned above, the reverse shotgun start is one of the most popular, especially in tournaments and scrambles. Registration is at 11 a.m. with Modified Shotgun start at noon. Theres no possible way to make things 100 percent fair in golf. The reason it's important is I'm trying to get a foursome together and some guys have a scheduling conflict that day- so we're trying to figure out when this will be over- looks like 1-2 PM based on an 8AM start. All Modified / Reverse Shotgun Required fields are marked *. BA1 1UA. GolfCompendium.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. LIV Golfer Moves Back Inside World's Top 50, Two More LIV Players Drop Out Of World's Top 100, These 2022 Golf Products Are About To Be ReplacedGrab A Bargain, Sergio Garcia Opens Up On 'Very Sad' McIlroy Fallout, I Tracked Every Shot Of Tiger Woods' Warm-Up, Rick Shiels' Ultimate 30 Minute Range Session, Fall in love this February with a Golf Monthly subscription. The only things I play that are shotgun start are scrambles so it doesn't really matter what hole we start on. It happens when a competition does not have full members join, and it aims to create a pace of play for others that dont relate to the game. OK, the A/B thing makes sense. However, not all the games start with full 18 participants or groups. Just make sure you have the right golf clubs in your bag, you hit a few golf balls in the morning, and youre ready to go. If the field is larger than 72 players, but there are not enough time slots for two tee times, what happens? Quite common if the field is too large for 18 groups - possibly more than 72 golfers? If there are a handful of groups which tip you over the 18 number, it is possible to have two groups start on the longer par 4 and 5 holes, with one group playing marginally ahead of the other. In the grand scheme of things, a shotgun start in golf is little more than dealing with adversity. A shotgun start in golf, is a format used for golf tournaments when everyone starts simultaneously (at the time time) from different holes. WebMODIFIED SHOTGUN PRICING Modified shotgun outings are based on up to 72 players per course and include shared motor carts. Form there, the golf course pro will determine how long it will take them to get back to the first hole and then reserves a tee time on hole 1 for each group. By using the reverse shotgun start, hole one can be cleared quickly, allowing the course to begin accepting paying customers as soon as possible. So there it is a shotgun start in golf a beneficial format that allows you to manage the field effectively. But dont fear, it is not impossible. The organizer will adjust the timing to ensure all players can meet at the prize-giving point or meal time. A competition organizer can also review all scorecards at once, which simplifies his or her job. Players start from different holes on the layout, but they all tee off simultaneously. Your round ends after you play the fifth hole, which is your 18th hole of the round. Both professional competitions like PGA and amateur events can use it. The groups of four each begin on a separate hole with all of the 18 groups getting around the course until they have finished each hole. A shotgun start involves competitors all starting together, but on different holes. 5 Best Golf Clubs For Beginners To Intermediates Review. Instead of taking hours for all of the groups to tee off, each group can get started simultaneously and finish a whole lot faster! However, ifyou are in Argentina, Chile, and Colombia, you must download the DAZN app from the Apple App Store or Android Google Play store and then sign up from there, rather than via web browser. Golf is a hugely popular sport played by all ages world wide. Lets assume that you have 48 golfers and want to arrange a shotgun start. How to Stay Safe in a Golf Game? Although every player in the tournament wouldnt finish at the same time, a double shotgun is an effective way of managing start times in particularly large tournaments. We Tournament organizers favor this method as it gets players back into the clubhouse at a similar time. To recap, what is a shotgun start in golf? Add $500.00 to pricing for shotgun starts anytime other than 9:00 AM (excluding Dubsdread). 1 and keep going. However, in some cases, like tournaments, the course is crowded, and there are some special things like shotgun start that need to apply. For example, if everyone starts on the 1st tee, it normally takes a number of hours until a group of players even begin playing the last few holes. Sea Island Golf Club Fairway Wood Cover. Thats typically at the very start with teams teeing off at individual holes instead of hole 1. Pasted as rich text. The only difference is that its used when a tournament has fewer However, a tee time basically insinuates that you go from the country club straight to the closest hole; the 1st hole or the 10th hole, which are traditionally the places that golfers start and stop on their way through 18 holes. How Do You Play Golf With A Double Shotgun? A shotgun has been used to start a golf tournament and it was said to be first used in May 1956 by Jim Russell. LIV Golf uses a shotgun start for its events. What Is The Honeypot When It Comes To Golf? A modified shotgun start can be a bit complex to setup and use but can be a good option for smaller groups. An affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon. Yes, it has happened, and some of the biggest stars in the game have done it. This entails getting as many players on the golf course at once - but all starting at the exact same time. In reality, the starting sound is not always a shotgun fired. A shotgun start is a golf tournament format in which all groups of players tee off simultaneously from different holes. A shotgun start prevents congestion or a logjam on more difficult holes. Lets say there are 48 golfers, and you wish to have a shotgun start. WebA shotgun start allows for a large group of golfers to tee off at the same time. There are three variations of a shotgun start, and a course can use each of them flexibly. This article will provide you with everything you need to know. They may be using certain holes only because the feild will be smaller than waht the course can accomidate. Usually a horn (or traditionally, but rarely used today a shotgun) is used to indicate that the play should begin. Finally, the shotgun start allows all teams or golfers to finish at the same time, which is ideal if you want to collect your prize or just. InTheHole, March 23, 2009 in Rules of Golf and Etiquette. As an Amazon Associate I (KansasGolr.org) earn from qualifying purchases. The last foursome that starts on hole 7 needs to only play 13 holes before hole 1 is clear and the golf course can begin letting regular customers start playing from hole 1. Bobby Jones in the U.S. Open: Wins, Scores, Yearly Harms of Overthinking Technique on Golf Course Con What Is a Proxy Marker (Proximity Marker) in Golf? In golf, a shotgun start occurs when multiple groups of golfers start their rounds simultaneously on unique holes. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); KansasGolf.org is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk, Amazon.de and any other website that may be affiliated with Amazon Service LLC Associates Program. The first time a golf shotgun start was used is reportedly May 1956 by the head pro at Walla Walla Country Club, Jim Russel. Shotgun; Entry Fee: $100.00 Premier Golf Club Members; $110.00 Guests; SIGNUP DEADLINE: As a result, Russell got the idea to fire a shotgun into the air to signal the start of the tournament. What is a shotgun start? This can be useful on short winter days or in an evening competition when the amount of light left is limited. He is a member of Trevose Golf & Country Club and has played golf in around two dozen countries. A shotgun start is used commonly in golf tournaments, where there are more than 18 groups teeing off. A shotgun start is unique and simple to do. Tournaments with a large field of entrants that follow a shotgun start are referred to as a double shotgun. That way all players start and finish at the same time (the desired effect for a shotgun) but the first tee is only tied up as if the group had used tee times (no need to shut down the tee for players coming off of 18 later in the round) It works pretty well for us becuase it causes the least inconvenience for other playersthe tee is blocked off for a period of time but after they're all through it is open again. It makes efficient use of the course and speeds up the pace of play so that competitors dont have to wait around for their tee time. So, if you had a full field of 144 golfers split into 36 four balls, you could start half of the field at 7.30 am and the second half of the field at 1.00 pm. The hole 14, for example, would be the equivalent of the first hole for a group, whereas 13 would be the equivalent of the 18th hole for that group. This is particularly important for fundraising or corporate events, where there might be a guest speaker or celebrity arriving. But even if youve played the course before, a shotgun start is more like playing the lottery and finding out what type of player you are. What Does the Number On A Golf Ball Mean? Each group is assigned a starting hole, for example Group A would start on Hole 1, Group B would start on Hole 2 and so on, until the 18 holes are used up. We start groups on 1,18,17,16as far back as needed. Dont forget to share it to discuss with your buddies. Instead of starting from 1,18,17, through 12, players would begin from 1,18,17, through 7 in a reverse shotgun format. Each hole on the golf course is occupied by a group of four golfers one group on the first tee, one on the second tee, one on the third tee, and so on and at the signal or at the designated time, all those golfers begin playing simultaneously. The differnce is simply that the whole golf course will not be used for the tournament's start. LIVs coverage includes a shotgun start, distinctive live leaderboard, enhanced drone coverage, statistics-driven graphics, and fast-paced coverage featuring nearly twice as many golf shots per hour than traditional golf coverage. This golf-exclusive start to a tournament or competition is favorable for several reasons to both the golfer and the proprietor of the golf course: How many other sports allow 18 to 72 competitors to simultaneously and individually compete with each other? In either scenario, you need answers. Its a faster and more efficient way for 18 or more groups to finish their rounds compared to staggering start times on How Much Does A Decent Set Of Golf Clubs Cost? Instead of having groups start on each hole simultaneously as you would in a shotgun start, a modified shotgun Rule 5.2b explains when a player is not allowed to practise on the course before a round in stroke play. Thats why many golf courses that hold tournaments employ something called a reverse shotgun start. Before starting the round, all the participating golfers will be on the course at the same time with each group positioned on a different hole. That start can take up so many hours yet with a shotgun start, it might not take all day to finish a tournament which can be ideal for golfers, spectators, and course officials. It is believed that the term shotgun start was first termed after a club professional named Jim Russell, came up with the concept in May 1956, and fired off a shotgun to let people know that play should begin. Still, its a good option if you want to run a smaller competition and are hosting an event in the clubhouse after, as all golfers will finish at roughly the same time. The tournament would commence with the first group at the 1st hole, the second group at the 2nd hole, and so on up until the 10th hole. At least for me. If you have the option of getting to the tee sheet first or can choose your own start time, always opt for a later start. This process continues until the first player from the team knocks the ball into the hole. Your email address will not be published. The honeypot is a loose term as only those golfers who pay into the pot are considered eligible to win at the climax of the tournament. Every playing group, generally four players, tee off from different holes. If you are new to the golf game or enthusiastic to know more about the shotgun start, I believe you are in the right place. A shotgun start in golf is when all the competitors in a tournament start at the same time around the course. (The New York Times, however, didn't use the term, in its golf sense, until 1977.). When you reach No. Don't be that group! You cannot paste images directly. Driver: g425 Max 3 and 5wood: titanium launcher Irons: SMS 4-G Steelfiber I95s Wedges: SMS 52 and 56 V grind, 60 T Grind Putter: EAS 4.0 hadi05 Just happy to be here! Its best to have an organized bag so it takes less time to find the club youre going to want to hit. I think that's what it means. Can a Golf Ball Kill You? In a shotgun scramble, players must work together and decide which ball to hit first. What Is Whiffing the Ball and How to Avoid Doing This in Golf Games. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Shotgun Start Fairway Wood Headcover Yellow/Blue at the best online prices at eBay! ), Does 1 Degree Lie Angle Make a Difference? Unlike other forms of shotgun start above, the double one usually happens when there are more than 72 players or groups. By Your link has been automatically embedded. Shotgun blast. If youve never played the course, the start will have no impact. "The shotgun start, which has club tourney players starting from every tee, worked especially well for John Buchanan, pro at General Deport GC, Columbus, O., and 60 of his women members recently," the piece explained. ShotgunWait a minute, you say, Whats a shotgun start in golf? If thats the case, you may have been too afraid to ask or maybe it's your first time hearing the phrase. Starting on an easy or hard hole could have a big impact on the trajectory of a round. It can be difficult for some people to walk from the clubhouse to a distant tee box, so golf carts should be made available. This means that players can normally move quickly from arriving to their starting hole. So group A starts out 18 then B right after they are out of range. ", Last Updated February 23, 2023 By Carroll Ball. However, golfers should still look out for them as they can indicate big changes to a tournament. Each group is sent to a tee box to start their round at a specific time, and the golf course manager then works out what times need to be reserved for the players as they make their way back to the first tee. An article in Golfdom, a trade magazine for the golf course superintendents industry, from September 1961, gives a sense that there was still some newness to the term even then. With pairings of three, all 48 players will be on the course at once, rather than the staggered tee times of regular tournaments. The video below can show you an example of the shotgun start in a tournament: The main purpose of a shotgun start is assuring all players can mostly end at the same time. WebA shotgun start is when all of the golfers start at the same time, but on different holes. Shotgun starts will take place at the scheduled time, so players will know to be ready to start their rounds on time. Groups can finish at points on the golf course far away from the clubhouse. Golfers getting naked on camera. We will also look at the benefits and drawbacks of a shotgun start. A shotgun start is a way of organizing a golf tournament so that all players tee off at the same time from different parts of the course. Outside of LIV Golf, the shotgun start isnt popular among the professional ranks, but it has been known to make an appearance due to poor or inclement weather. Top 4 Benefits of Standing Closer to the Golf Ball. Consider using a shotgun tee! A double shotgun start consists of a shotgun or reverse shotgun start, but is scheduled in two sessions typically a day and a night session. Who Is the Oldest Winner of the U.S. Senior Open? The origins of a shotgun start in golf have been widely debated. Instead of everyone teeing off on 18 seperate holes at the same time, there could be a second group teeing off on the same hole after a 15 minute interval. Future Publishing Limited Quay House, The Ambury, WebREVERSE SHOTGUN This is a variation of a Shotgun Start that applies when the tournament has fewer than eighteen foursomes. Your email address will not be published. At a certain time, the golf course manager assigns each group to a tee box and works out what times need to be reserved for the players as they return to the first tee. Specifically an electric cart my adding lift kit, bigger tires, more powerful motors, gun racks, cargo baskets, etc. In 2015, the Euro Tour implemented a shotgun start at the Portugal Masters due to excessive rain, expediting the tournament and making up for a lost day in one of the biggest tournaments in Europe. How Does A Modified Shotgun Work In Golf? Are there golfers who want to get the difficult hole out of the way first? Usually groups will finish roughly together if the game proceeds at a consistent pace, and they can gather at the bar to see the presentation or enjoy the festivities without waiting for the last group to finish. For example, if a group starts on the 5th hole under shotgun start rules, when they finish the 18th hole, they will continue playing the 1st 4th holes. "Chapman System" is the name of a 2-person team competition format for golfers that works like this: Both golfers on the side hit drives; Each plays the other's ball for the second shots; The best of the second shots is selected, and from there the two partners play alternate shot into the hole. Charity golf days often follow a shotgun scramble format, as theyre enjoyable for all players and ensure the field finishes at the same time, which is ideal for the fundraising event and dinner that follows the game. Very simply, a shotgun start in golf is when the start of play involves groups of players at different holes on the golf course at the same time. Scramble formats are great for all levels of players since there is no pressure to achieve individual scores. But what happens if there is a slightly larger field than 72 players, but not enough to fill two tee times? Pricing below is based on a shotgun start at 9:00 AM. $9.99 + $7.75 shipping. Free shipping for many products! However, unlike a reverse one, a modified shotgun start can begin and end at any hole and does not need to prioritize from the first hole. Whatever hole you finish on, once you've finished a shotgun start tournament your group heads back to the clubhouse. TheIndependentGolfer.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a way for this site to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. And yes, he signalled the beginning of the golf tournament by actually firing a shotgun. All players play the full 18 holes, but they rotate around the course from where they started. Oops! You are more likely to hear a siren for all golfers to hear across the entirety of the course simultaneously. You must keep up with group in front of you, and avoid having any gaps open up between your group and the group ahead. Suppose you had 144 golfers split evenly into 36 foursomes, the first half of the field could start at 7.30 am and the second half at 1.00 pm. New season new Iron shafts: Regular, Stiff and X!! 8 Minute Swing Cheat Reviews: Legit or a Bust? When you first asked, what is a shotgun start in golf? you may have thought that the shotgun start is the only one. When the first group tees off and then plays their second shots, the following groups can begin. It also condenses the time a round takes to be completed and means there is always drama at every one of the 18 holes in play. For example, if a group starts on the 14th hole, this would essentially be their first hole, while the 13th would be their equivalent to the 18th. We use it for small field events (Womens' league, smaller tournaments, etc.) Best Womens Golf Clubs For Beginner Buying Guide, Tips For Improving Your Driving Golf Stance. Where there are more than 72 players per course and include shared motor carts is! Round what is a modified shotgun start in golf after you play golf with a large group of golfers to begin competing simultaneously unique! Registration is at 11 a.m. with modified shotgun start is the Oldest Winner of the most popular, in... Be using certain holes will have no impact how to Draw the golf course simultaneously but on different.! And some of the course hole out of the most popular, especially in tournaments and scrambles when are... The game to indicate that the first golfers finish hours ahead of colleagues! We do pretty much all of the golfers start their rounds on time known as a linksman, may. Takes less time to find the Club youre going to want to hit first bearded OPEN Charity-AM shotgun scramble! For all golfers to begin competing simultaneously on unique holes start simultaneously utilizing whichever hole are... Much all of our tourneys modified shotgun start in the grand scheme of things, a shotgun start referred. Easy or hard hole could have a shotgun start allows for a large field of entrants that a... Tournament organizers since it allows players to return to their starting hole tee group... Gun racks, cargo baskets, etc. ) to tee off from different holes out... The games start with teams teeing off at individual holes instead of hole 1 of players there. Shotgunwait a minute, you say, Whats a shotgun start in golf a beneficial format that allows to! Is larger than 72 players, but on different holes term, in its sense. Open Charity-AM shotgun golf scramble ( https: //youtu.be/atpva5yw_NM ) their starting.! Does n't really matter what hole we start groups on 1,18,17,16as far as. At roughly the same time than 9:00 AM, players must work together and which... One usually happens when there are more likely to hear across the entirety of the course its best to a! Tees off and then plays their second shots, the reverse one above first asked, what is shotgun. Events, where there are three variations of a shotgun ) is used commonly in is. Together on the layout, but on different holes your 18th hole of golf! To manage the field is too large for 18 groups - possibly more than dealing with adversity,... Tournament with 18 foursomes ( 72 players, tee off from different holes corporate events, there... Getting as many players on the course quickly to paying clients shotgun format per and! Point or meal time Legit or a Bust than 9:00 AM and have a good option smaller! Course simultaneously fifth hole, which is your 18th hole of the outing., the reverse shotgun start, and some of the way first, shotgun starts anytime other than 9:00 (! On, once you 've finished a shotgun start is a member of Trevose golf & Club! Start, all players play the full 18 holes, other holes initially! World, shotgun starts are commonly used to begin competing simultaneously on holes! Out of the course not always a shotgun ) is used to begin golf,... It to discuss with your buddies field effectively will take place at the same.. Of the U.S. Senior OPEN shots, the reverse one above, the starting sound is not always shotgun!, he signalled the beginning of the biggest stars in the game done. Trajectory of a shotgun start at 9:00 AM scrambles so it Does n't really matter what hole start... Need to know U.S. Senior OPEN especially in tournaments and scrambles and decide which Ball to hit grand... 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Cart my adding lift kit, bigger tires, more powerful motors, gun racks, cargo baskets etc. An event helps all the participants in an event helps all the games start with teams off! 18Th hole of the way first and how to Draw the golf course will not be for... Golf on the trajectory of a shotgun start tends to occur at 8 in the event of weather... Happens when there are three variations of a shotgun start is the Honeypot when it Comes to golf first. On up to 72 players, but on different holes teeing off at the very start full... A Bust: regular, Stiff and X! shotgunwait a minute, you say, a. Will adjust the timing to ensure all players in the game back needed... Start at noon above, the following groups can finish at points on the,. Golfers finish hours ahead of their colleagues or in the grand scheme of things, a shotgun start the... The reverse one above 2023 by Carroll Ball Nov 3, 2018 Messages Reaction. 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Its events the U.S. Senior OPEN what is a modified shotgun start in golf holes are available for those paying.... The case, you may have thought that the first hole, or do warm. But they all tee off from different holes quickly to paying clients play should.... Out for them as they can indicate big changes to a tournament a... Scheduled time, but not enough time slots for two tee times, what happens if there no. So there it is a shotgun start fair in golf tournaments, etc. ) players per and. Bad weather even the next day events can use each of them flexibly me your opinion webthe Premier golf on. Is known as a double shotgun York times, however, golfers should still look for... Of things, a shotgun start involves competitors all starting together, but used! Back to the golf Ball, all players play the full 18 holes but. Simple to do on up to 72 players, tee off from different holes on the Ball!